Immigration reform what about family

[indiano]

Hello Guys, Immigration reform at the doorstep.What about family immigrant.Do you all think it will be beneficial or fast processing system for the family members who has been waiting for long long years. Is there any chances for those family immigrant who had already waited 6 to 8 yesrs.Will this reform would be helpful for family immigrant or just for illegal immigrant.Please post some views.

[ix470001]

Hello Guys, Immigration reform at the doorstep.What about family immigrant.Do you all think it will be beneficial or fast processing system for the family members who has been waiting for long long years. Is there any chances for those family immigrant who had already waited 6 to 8 yesrs.Will this reform would be helpful for family immigrant or just for illegal immigrant.Please post some views.

From what I've heard so far, immigration reform being proposed in Congress are mainly employment base (legal or illegal). I think Sen. Edward Kennedy have raised this issue that we should also give some attention to family based immigration as well. I hope something really happens either way.

[jcheng]

I believe Bush administration is proposing RESTRICTING family based immigration. Basically the Republican party wants to tilt the whole immigration system towards employement based --- at the cost of family related immigration.

From what I've heard so far, immigration reform being proposed in Congress are mainly employment base (legal or illegal). I think Sen. Edward Kennedy have raised this issue that we should also give some attention to family based immigration as well. I hope something really happens either way.

[dr_lha]

I believe Bush administration is proposing RESTRICTING family based immigration. Basically the Republican party wants to tilt the whole immigration system towards employement based --- at the cost of family related immigration.
There is absolutely no evidence of this, apart from an article in a Phillipino news website that apparently was based on nothing.

[thera33]

There is absolutely no evidence of this, apart from an article in a Phillipino news website that apparently was based on nothing.
There is evidence for that. The proposal is that it will take up to 8 years to clear the current backlogs for those already waiting no matter what category, family based F1, F2B, F3 and F4 will no longer exists, also parents sponsorship will be limited. Anyone in the system before the prosed cutoff date will be OK and would see rapid processing.

It is reported that this proposal is agreed on.

[dr_lha]

There is evidence for that. The proposal is that it will take up to 8 years to clear the current backlogs for those already waiting no matter what category, family based F1, F2B, F3 and F4 will no longer exists, also parents sponsorship will be limited. Anyone in the system before the prosed cutoff date will be OK and would see rapid processing.

It is reported that this proposal is agreed on.
Reported by who and where? Link please.

[thera33]

Reported by who and where? Link please.

I guess you are not reading on the Immigration dialouge going on between the Dem and Rep Senators and white House officials at all. This proposal of eliminating family based apart from spouses and minor children has been reported in every major news media. Its hard to beleive that you have not seen this. What do you think the real problem is now in the discussions...not illegals...that has agreed upon...apart from the touch back policy. Eliminating family based is where the war has been waged.....Dems against and Rep for.

[dr_lha]

What? No link? Please show me a report of this in a major news media outlet.

[TheRealCanadian]

What? No link? Please show me a report of this in a major news media outlet.

... and specifics of any proposal. It's interesting, when it comes to immigration process ans wersmost people here want a signed affadavit in blood from the general counsel of USCIS before they believe anything. When it comes to rumor and unsubstantiated innuendo, they'll believe anything without any corroboration.

Family-based immigration will be around for a long time.

[thera33]

... and specifics of any proposal. It's interesting, when it comes to immigration process ans wersmost people here want a signed affadavit in blood from the general counsel of USCIS before they believe anything. When it comes to rumor and unsubstantiated innuendo, they'll believe anything without any corroboration.

Family-based immigration will be around for a long time.

I guess you only read threads here.....you must read articles on washington post, yahoo, msnbc, cnn and other sites on immigration news.

Check this link.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/05/15/MNG3APQRSQ1.DTL

[TheRealCanadian]

I guess you only read threads here.....you must read articles on washington post, yahoo, msnbc, cnn and other sites on immigration news. Check this link.

I have a better link for you: S.1348 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.1348:)

That's the actual text of the CIR legislation introduced in Congress. Let's stick to facts instead of opinions - is there a point system in there? (I honestly don't know; but I can tell you that it retains FB immigration.)

[dr_lha]

I guess you only read threads here.....you must read articles on washington post, yahoo, msnbc, cnn and other sites on immigration news.

Check this link.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/05/15/MNG3APQRSQ1.DTL

Yes, that was the only link I could find that had any relevance. Still it does not say they're scrapping familiy immigration, simply that there's an idea to give priority to smart people. Not a bad idea IMHO, but still a far cry from the idea that they're going to "scrap family immigration".

Can you point me towards the articles on the Washington Post that backs up your claim as well?

[GotPR?]

I think this is what he's talking about.. It's just an idea to prohibit USC to bring siblings and adult children.
I wouldn't call it closing door for FB. My thought is all the adult must be on their own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/02/AR2007050201493.html

[thera33]

I think this is what he's talking about.. It's just an idea to prohibit USC to bring siblings and adult children.
I wouldn't call it closing door for FB. My thought is all the adult must be on their own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/02/AR2007050201493.html

Thank you GotPR, I guess you would make a good lawyer...Doc and Canadian...here the argument and we all have to agree.....If you are going to grant at least 12 milion people amnesty and each applicant sponsors their 6 adult kids + children if any, 6 brothers + spouses + kids, and then if each adult kids sponsors their mother/father if being born out of wedlock...then you will be looking at a population explosion. Thats why some senators are proposing cutting F1, F2B, F3 and F4 and limiting parents. I once thought this was not fair, but reality kicked in. I even think they should cut parents over certain age, and put the rest on a points based system.

I am shocked that you are not following the discussions......Canadian, you and I know that that bill will not make it in the house.

They plan to phase out family based over eight years by processing all those in line and then use the next five to process the illegals. From what I have been hearing, a deal might just come through.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/368557,2_1_AU03_IMMIGRATION_S1.article

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070510/POLITICS/705100316

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=64739

[TheRealCanadian]

I am shocked that you are not following the discussions......Canadian, you and I know that that bill will not make it in the house.

Out of curiosity, why do you believe that S.1348 won't make it through the House?

They plan to phase out family based over eight years by processing all those in line and then use the next five to process the illegals.

I am at a loss as to how you drew such a conclusion. Two of the three (the third was down - too busy) speak of limiting FB immigration, which isn't news - it's already limited.

[indiano]

Hi Guys , We should raise our voice to senators. Just keep writing in AILA .com putting your zipcode. Why would we suffer for waiting so long.We must be rewarded for waiting. We family immigrant follow the most legal way of immigration. Family immigrant also need reform because of retrogession in each and evry category whether f1,f2,f3 or f4.You all can see how EB visa is moving 2 to 3 years.Guys we must write to our senators.Tell your pain how do we feel pain being apart from our own blood.2 to 3 days more left must write it.

[thera33]

I told you so...read this...maybe we study the law differently. Here is a picture of what is about to be debated...If you can read between the lines its goodbye for F1, F2B, F3 and F4 in the future.....only those who are already in might get a break. So much for reform!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/16/washington/16immig.html

[dr_lha]

You're reading a lot between the lines here I think. The emphasis will change is the only thing I see, from what I hear they will re-prioritise visas to smart people rather than people's brothers and sisters. Although that might mean a longer wait, I don't see anything saying that that all Family Based immigration categories will be destroyed.

[TheRealCanadian]

I told you so...read this...maybe we study the law differently. Here is a picture of what is about to be debated...

That's not what is about to be debated. It's a newspaper article.

I have already posted a link to what has been introduced in the Senate and will be debated, yet you refuse to look at it and instead run around claiming that newspapers are more authoritative than a Senate bill.

[sbkim]

Quick question - if you submit I 130/485 sponsoring your parents before the law passes, are you not affected by the limitations being proposed by the President?

Also, after you submit the sponsorship papers, can the benefiiciary stay in the US until the application has been processed?

Thank you.

[TheRealCanadian]

Quick question - if you submit I 130/485 sponsoring your parents before the law passes, are you not affected by the limitations being proposed by the President?

What limitations? What proposals? It all depends on the specifics.

[sbkim]

I thought I recall reading that they will limite the total number of applicants or approved cases for parental sponsorship.

[sbkim]

"Under the White House proposal, legal immigrants would lose the right to petition to bring adult children and siblings to the U.S. They could do so for spouses and minor children, but their ability to sponsor parents would be severely limited.

The proposal would limit or end preferences for people who had family members living legally in the U.S., "

What does this mean for USC sponsoring parents for greencard?

[thera33]

"Under the White House proposal, legal immigrants would lose the right to petition to bring adult children and siblings to the U.S. They could do so for spouses and minor children, but their ability to sponsor parents would be severely limited.

The proposal would limit or end preferences for people who had family members living legally in the U.S., "

What does this mean for USC sponsoring parents for greencard?

Thats the million dollar question, however I was reading somewhere that the proposal was to clear the entire blacklog of those who are already waiting in line. That would take 8 years so that is why the illegals cant apply for pernament residence until after 8 years. But ther is so much bull in the media now, you dont know who is tellig the truth. I wonder if REALCANADIAN can comment on this. We are talking about the Senate because this is the bill that is also touted to be debated in the House also.

[thera33]

That's not what is about to be debated. It's a newspaper article.

I have already posted a link to what has been introduced in the Senate and will be debated, yet you refuse to look at it and instead run around claiming that newspapers are more authoritative than a Senate bill.

What are you talking about? You know that this bill is not the one that will be debated, so stop putting false hopes in peoples mind. Senators along with White House staffers are drafting a bi-partisim bill that is most likely make it to the floor. I am reading from sources who might have a clue about the details of the bill. Try and get some details about that bill and let us know.

[TheRealCanadian]

What are you talking about? You know that this bill is not the one that will be debated, so stop putting false hopes in peoples mind.

Actually, I don't know one way or another. I know that's the one that has been introduced, and until something else gets introduced that's what I'm going to concentrate on. I stick to facts, not rumor and speculation.

[thera33]

That's not what is about to be debated. It's a newspaper article.

I have already posted a link to what has been introduced in the Senate and will be debated, yet you refuse to look at it and instead run around claiming that newspapers are more authoritative than a Senate bill.

Mr.Canadian, dont say I didn't say so, now the deal is reached between the Senators and the White House and I was correct. Next time you get the facts and you are the one must stop spreading rumors. It would be good for you to do some research before you make accusations.

[Micronesia]

The issue direction is already 'Nailed'.
See this news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_go_co/immigration_congress

[ncblackhole]

The news says there is a limit on parents .. I don't know the numbers.. it could be 50,000 per year.. or so..

does anyone know how many total parents petitions allowed per year. This could start a new nonsense of backlog in parents GC petition if the limit is small..

Someone was saying earlier that on avg there are 100,000 petitions each year for parents but the quota is 50,000 now..

Can anyone clarify?

Thanks

[TheRealCanadian]

Mr.Canadian, dont say I didn't say so, now the deal is reached between the Senators and the White House and I was correct. Next time you get the facts and you are the one must stop spreading rumors. It would be good for you to do some research before you make accusations.

How many times do I need to repeat myself???

I'm going to wait until there is a bill introduced in the Senate, and I'm going to analyze and discuss that. There will be specifics, and we can all find out the effects of that bill. If you look at the article, it quotes Ted Kennedy as saying It would emphasize family ties as well as employment skills in weighing how soon immigrants could become legal residents,

I don't anticipate IR or FB2 going anywhere. FB1and FB3 may be reduced, but then again maybe not. FB4 is probably dead, but people have been talking about killing that for years now. But thanks to your speculation, we have all sorts of people asking what the specific quotas will be, and what will be eliminated or changed - and we don't know that yet. There's a good chance that we end up with a hybrid system where the old FB1 and FB3 qualifications give you the same number of "points" as an EB applicant. Who knows.

When the bill comes out, I'll address it then.

[begemot]

http://www.immigration-law.com/
My selfish concern here is parents' immigration (I applied for citizenship 3 month ago and plan to file for my parents the day I get it, if it still works)

[GotPR?]

As having been said, there is no text avaialble yet and nobody knows the details.
Let's talk after text is published.

[MOCKBA1999]

What I don't understand is how it will affect those of us who are in line already... Any ideas?...

[TheRealCanadian]

What I don't understand is how it will affect those of us who are in line already... Any ideas?...

... and it's questions like this why I push so strongly for people to wait until we see some actual legislative text. Until then we get a lot of anxious questions that simply cannot be answered.

[thera33]

... and it's questions like this why I push so strongly for people to wait until we see some actual legislative text. Until then we get a lot of anxious questions that simply cannot be answered.

From what I have researching and being told, the Democrats has requested a mandatory amount of visas to clear the existing blacklog of petitions as part of their concessions. There was a speculated cutoff date of June 2005 or May 2006 and has to be done in 8 years . That is the reason why the illegals would not have a chance at pernament resident for at least 8 years to 13 years. By that time the F1, F2B, FB3 and F4 family based will be cleared and put to rest. therefore those illegals would not have a shot at sponsoring relatives.

So with this being the case some persons especially Filipino's residents waiting in line will see faster processing. But family based will go in the future except F2B and here come a new parents category - they will be limited.

This is not a speculation, but you dont know what have change

[hiachiever]

IMHO, the bill do not solve the current illegal immigration issues (law breakers) while jeopardizing and degrade values of family reunification. Aren't we suppose to stay close to blood relatives?

What makes those law breakers (illegal immigrants) to comply with the proposed law? i.e. going back to their home country for certain years and apply for whatever visa... Aren't they law breakers already? What's the punishment(s) if they still breaking the law?

I think what works is:
If we need guest worker program for farm job or any other fields, just issue new type of employment visa (similar F Visa for skilled workers but this one is for unskilled needed fields) to fill our demand for the needed fields as much as the demand for the employees in the fields. Prioritized those illegal immigrants to apply so at least we open them a chance to stay here. We understand people want to stay here and there wasn't much choices back then for this type of immigrants. IMHO, in the future, guest worker program should be open to any citizens of any country not just Mexico or a certain country. Like DV lottery or somthing to keep it diverse because it's unfair if it doesn't. Then, just send the rest of the illegal immigrants back home. We have unemployment problems already in the States, why should we allow more people in? Those could raise crime rates.
What also fair is to sort out those illegal immigrants skills. We might need them to stay in here. We don't want to waste good brains right? If they're just staying here to dig out our gold and send it back to their home country, what's good this country get out of it?

Peace

[pianoplayer]

IMHO, the bill do not solve the current illegal immigration issues (law breakers) while jeopardizing and degrade values of family reunification. Aren't we suppose to stay close to blood relatives?

What makes those law breakers (illegal immigrants) to comply with the proposed law? i.e. going back to their home country for certain years and apply for whatever visa... Aren't they law breakers already? What's the punishment(s) if they still breaking the law?

I think what works is:
If we need guest worker program for farm job or any other fields, just issue new type of employment visa (similar F Visa for skilled workers but this one is for unskilled needed fields) to fill our demand for the needed fields as much as the demand for the employees in the fields. Prioritized those illegal immigrants to apply so at least we open them a chance to stay here. We understand people want to stay here and there wasn't much choices back then for this type of immigrants. IMHO, in the future, guest worker program should be open to any citizens of any country not just Mexico or a certain country. Like DV lottery or somthing to keep it diverse because it's unfair if it doesn't. Then, just send the rest of the illegal immigrants back home. We have unemployment problems already in the States, why should we allow more people in? Those could raise crime rates.
What also fair is to sort out those illegal immigrants skills. We might need them to stay in here. We don't want to waste good brains right? If they're just staying here to dig out our gold and send it back to their home country, what's good this country get out of it?

Peace

Hi:

I agree with some of what you say. I personally am not for all these concessions that are to be made to illegal immigrants. The problem is how to, logistically, send 11 million people home. I don't think the government can afford it. Yet at the same time, if they eventually allow them in, there will be another 11 million in a couple of years.

As for family immigration, I disagree. Of course it should not be entirely abolished. But it should be limited. I think a move towards a more employment-based system is what the US needs - a points system would not be a bad idea. Immigration should be seen as a privilege, NOT a right. Family reunification is a nice concept, but something that should be considered when a relative comes to the US. Just because someone came to the US, does not entitle 15 other family members to come in the name of family reunification. Ultimately, we wish to encourage and embrace immigrants who can really offer skills to the US, along with immediate family members (children under 18 and spouses).

I know many disagree with me on this, and that is fine - it is only my opinion. It is just an unfortunate fact that we cannot satisfy everyone's expectations. An immigration system ultimately serves the nation's needs - not the individual's.

[perplexing]

PianoPlayer I won't waste time and will get straight to the point. The major problem I have with the current "so called" reforms is PARENTS!!!!!

Now lets look at a scenario. I am a US citizen with foreign born parents and would like for them to spend their last years with me. They are over 60 years old, retired; what point system are you going to use? How are they benefiting America with their skills? And why would you prohibit them from coming here? 15 member families become an issue but why in the world would you not allow elderly (biological) PARENTS from being with their family?

[hiachiever]

Hi:

I agree with some of what you say. I personally am not for all these concessions that are to be made to illegal immigrants. The problem is how to, logistically, send 11 million people home. I don't think the government can afford it. Yet at the same time, if they eventually allow them in, there will be another 11 million in a couple of years.

As for family immigration, I disagree. Of course it should not be entirely abolished. But it should be limited. I think a move towards a more employment-based system is what the US needs - a points system would not be a bad idea. Immigration should be seen as a privilege, NOT a right. Family reunification is a nice concept, but something that should be considered when a relative comes to the US. Just because someone came to the US, does not entitle 15 other family members to come in the name of family reunification. Ultimately, we wish to encourage and embrace immigrants who can really offer skills to the US, along with immediate family members (children under 18 and spouses).

I know many disagree with me on this, and that is fine - it is only my opinion. It is just an unfortunate fact that we cannot satisfy everyone's expectations. An immigration system ultimately serves the nation's needs - not the individual's.

Well, that's why i said that this country need to sort out which are good illegal immigrants (contribute to this country) which are not first. This will reduce the number of illegals to send home. It's not like discriminating one to another rather trying to offer a solution which could also benefit this country. If this country could afford to go to Iraq, I'm sure it'd not be a problem to send the rest of the bad eggs home. Because sooner or later these people will be the burden to this country system and tax payers pay all the costs. In other words, it's either they cost you couple hundreds dollars to one or two thousands up front to send them home now or tax payers pay will have to pay the costs for the rest of their life. I'm a nay sayer to amnesty but i believe that we shouldn't waste a good brain.

Lol. I've rarely seen a person has 15 blood relatives. Mostly 2 or 4 max. So, basically the current system should work fine or should be slightly refined. For example, restrict child's citizenship of illegal immigrants based on birthplace i.e. if a child born in U.S. soil and his/her parents are illegals, then he/she should not be granted a citizenship. Separating blood relatives like parents, brothers and sisters is just not right. Many family splits up just because they got a job in here and can't reunited with their family because some chose job over family since they've no other choice that could bring them up together.

Again this is just my opinion, not negative comments or remarks pointed out against anybody.

[hiachiever]

PianoPlayer I won't waste time and will get straight to the point. The major problem I have with the current "so called" reforms is PARENTS!!!!!

Now lets look at a scenario. I am a US citizen with foreign born parents and would like for them to spend their last years with me. They are over 60 years old, retired; what point system are you going to use? How are they benefiting America with their skills? And why would you prohibit them from coming here? 15 member families become an issue but why in the world would you not allow elderly (biological) PARENTS from being with their family?

Exactly the point. We should split this discussion into 2 topics: 1. employment based 2. family based. these couldn't be mixed up.

[FMR75]

Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Go to another country that will pay for your parents using the citizens tax monies. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible.

[mermaid06]

I don't think "citizens tax monies" are spent on sponsored parents. They are the responsibility of the children who sponsor them. Only those elderly that migrate to U.S. as refugees (e.g. Lautenberg program http://www.vdare.com/allen/lautenberg.htm) are eligible for state and federal resources as soon as they arrive here.

Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Go to another country that will pay for your parents using the citizens tax monies. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible.

[FMR75]

What rock did you crawl out from, Mermaid? Yes, in a perfect world that is how it works, but OBVIOUSLY that is far far FAR from the truth. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE CHANGING THIS PART OF THE IMMIGRATION LAW!? And Think prior to posting.

[TheRealCanadian]

What rock did you crawl out from, Mermaid? Yes, in a perfect world that is how it works, but OBVIOUSLY that is far far FAR from the truth. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE CHANGING THIS PART OF THE IMMIGRATION LAW!? And Think prior to posting.

Let's try and remain polite.

[akatu]

Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Go to another country that will pay for your parents using the citizens tax monies. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible.

I am here working and paying taxes for almost 10 year now, CIS continuously was screwing my green card process and now i cannot bring my parents and aged-out son into US!
i just cannot afford to go to another country. I have no seven lives.
If they have told me they wre going to cut family immigration, i would.

[akatu]

Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Go to another country that will pay for your parents using the citizens tax monies. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible.

I am here working and paying taxes for almost 10 year now, CIS continuously was screwing my green card process for years, and now i cannot bring my parents and aged-out son into US!
i just cannot afford to go to another country. I have no seven lives.
If they have told me they wre going to cut family immigration, i would.

[FMR75]

Sorry to hear about your sad sad story, but i don't see how it is relevant to this post. Perhaps you can elaborate??? What does it have to do with my tax money?

[dr_lha]

Its all to do with the sense of entitlement people have around here that the US government should allow their entire extended family to emmigrate with them.

Somebody call the Waaaaaambulance.

[akatu]

Sorry to hear about your sad sad story, but i don't see how it is relevant to this post. Perhaps you can elaborate??? What does it have to do with my tax money?

I mean i do not need any money from government for my folks. Just let them come here.
Illigals are already here. no matter what the decision is they won't leave, period. It is so unfare!

[FMR75]

Okay, now I am going to ask a COMPLETELY irrelevant question... just for curiousity sake.

Are there any other countries that sponsor families based on citizenship?

And if so, do they work the same way?

[dr_lha]

I know the UK is extremely restrictive as to who can get an ILR (UK Green Card). You really have to prove that there will be hardship (financial and physical, not emotional) if they don't come to live with you in the UK, rather than just proving relationship.

[akatu]

Okay, now I am going to ask a COMPLETELY irrelevant question... just for curiousity sake.

Are there any other countries that sponsor families based on citizenship?

And if so, do they work the same way?

You don't understand the logic. I am not in "another country". i am in the US and i have chosen to come here because it is a great country to work for and to immigration to. And now bunch of apoplexic, obese crooks Washington try to derail the system on which this country was thriving for ages. although I agree with the clauses that imply it cultural diversity and INTEGRATION not a "fifth column" or "Trojan horse" whose ultimate goal to destroy western civilization.
They 'd better concentrate on that!

[dr_lha]

Write to your congressman if you strongly disagree with any bill. It does more good than blowing hot air on an internet forum.

[akatu]

I know the UK is extremely restrictive as to who can get an ILR (UK Green Card). You really have to prove that there will be hardship (financial and physical, not emotional) if they don't come to live with you in the UK, rather than just proving relationship.

Do not forget that that it takes only from 1 to 3 hour of flight to visit parents fom UK to most of Europian and Asian countries. Compare with US 10 -18 hrs trip one way. You cannot do it on weekend

[akatu]

Write to your congressman if you strongly disagree with any bill. It does more good than blowing hot air on an internet forum.

I will do this as soon as debate starts wwhen a "working" text of bill is fully available.

[FMR75]

Here you go, AKATU:

John.Conyers@mail.house.gov

2426 Rayburn Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-5126
(202) 225-0072 Fax

2615 W. Jefferson
Trenton, MI 48183
(734) 675-4084
(734) 675-4218 Fax

669 Federal Building
231 W. Lafayette
Detroit, MI 48226
(313) 961-5670
(313) 226-2085 Fax

[cart]

Do not forget that that it takes only from 1 to 3 hour of flight to visit parents fom UK to most of Europian and Asian countries. Compare with US 10 -18 hrs trip one way. You cannot do it on weekend

Clearly there are places that are just as far from the UK as there are from the US. This is a specious argument at best.

The US has the most relaxed immigration policy of any western country, so trying to say it's overly restrictive is ridiculous.

[FMR75]

wow. Is that really true of the U.S. and western immigration policy? What about Canada?

What about eastern immigration policy?

[akatu]

Clearly there are places that are just as far from the UK as there are from the US. This is a specious argument at best.

The US has the most relaxed immigration policy of any western country, so trying to say it's overly restrictive is ridiculous.

This was just one of the arguments why on personal level i screem against this prohibitive rule and speaking US immigration policy, it is most relaxed is going to be overly restrictive.

Those immigrants who are already here , and all set with their kids and parents and want the door to be shut are just heartless and selfish. Forgive me for hursh lenquage.

[FMR75]

Kindly take responsibility for your choices in life, as we all must. And write your congressman.

[begemot]

As far as I know (I studied the subject, since I recently considered several offers outside USA) most of the developed countries do not allow immigration of siblings, but all allow immigration of old parents in one form or another. Majority do not have explicate "quotas" on parents immigration, but many would insist on some proof that your parent is lonely and solely depends on you economically. Also, in many countries you do not need to be citizen to bring your parent – being an analog of US permanent resident is enough.
And yes, when I considered these offers I took into account the fact that here I could bring my parents earlier.
Now, I suspect that I pay more tax then more then 90% of population of US, thus I subsidize by my money many and many average- and below-average-income families of those who were born here (not to say about those on welfare). Why should I do it? Why should I pay for public schools when my children use private ones? Why this is more morally legitimate to support them by my money then to support my parents?
Often those who scream about “some old Chinese (or whatever) parents who are financial burden on our tax” appear after correct calculation to receive form the tax system mote then they pay to it..
Of course, my main goal is not to explain anything to this type of people. I will do what I deem possible and necessary to protect my own selfish (yes!) interests. Talking just helps to clear one’s mind in preparation for action.

[GotPR?]

I mean i do not need any money from government for my folks. Just let them come here.
Illigals are already here. no matter what the decision is they won't leave, period. It is so unfare!
Talking about fair or unfair, don't you think ability that extended family can immigrate to the US just because they have a relative here unfair ?
I won't be against the idea to support minor children and spouse because that is common to all the category, but only USC can support adult members of extended family. All the adult should make their immigration path by themselves. THat is what EB/DV/AS people are doing and it is more fair system if you want to talk about fairness.

[FMR75]

Begemot, your reasoning for NOT supporting PUBLIC schools WITHIN THE COUNTRY you live in and BRINGING additional people (parents or others) based on a tax issue is not valid. EVERYONE pays taxes. Also, I challenge your studies regarding other developed countries. I believe extreme hardship is usually warrant. Please advise which countries you have studied. Name a few.

[dr_lha]

Do not forget that that it takes only from 1 to 3 hour of flight to visit parents fom UK to most of Europian and Asian countries. Compare with US 10 -18 hrs trip one way. You cannot do it on weekend
What????

Tell me what Asian Country you can fly to the UK from in 1-3 hours?

[thera33]

What????

Tell me what Asian Country you can fly to the UK from in 1-3 hours?

Leave the poor guy alone:D He only wants his mother:D Can you tell him that parents wont be eliminated if this bill is to become law. There will only be a lowere quota.

And by the way tell him that alot of parents do not contribute to the U.S. economy, but surpress...thats tough talk, but its true.

[dr_lha]

Parents of US citizens are currently considered immediate relatives, so it wouldn't affect them if F1-4 were abolished anyway, only if they decided to re-evaluate what an "immediate relative" is.

[pianoplayer]

You don't understand the logic. I am not in "another country". i am in the US and i have chosen to come here because it is a great country to work for and to immigration to. And now bunch of apoplexic, obese crooks Washington try to derail the system on which this country was thriving for ages. although I agree with the clauses that imply it cultural diversity and INTEGRATION not a "fifth column" or "Trojan horse" whose ultimate goal to destroy western civilization.
They 'd better concentrate on that!

They had not better do anything! The US is perfectly able to legislate who it wants to immigrate here and who not. No immigrant is entitled to anything. Should immigrants be treated fairly and humanely? Of course. But your parents are not entitled to immigrate just because you qualified. It is a privilege, which the current system affords, and it can be withdrawn.

Look, in a perfect world it would be wonderful for everyone to be together in the same place. That is not the reality in the world right now. Where would you draw the line? My heart aches sometimes for spouses of GC holders, parents of GC holders, certain illegal aliens separated from children etc. But to maintain a workable system, lines have to be drawn. This country does need to move to a more skills-based system, attracting immigrants who can truly contribute to the country. As I have said, immigration policies are to be designed to benefit the nation as a whole, while observing individual rights and liberty. However, parents have no inherent right to follow their children. These are things that need to be considered before immigrating to another country.

[akatu]

What????

Tell me what Asian Country you can fly to the UK from in 1-3 hours?

Russland

[dr_lha]

Russland? You mean Russia?

The Western parts of Russia are generally considered to be Europe, not Asia.
Either way, a flight from London to Moscow takes about 4 hours, not "1-3 hours".

[Al Southner]

Guys,


Stop this bickering and mud slinging on this proposed bill, the operational word there "proposed". :rolleyes: My contribution is this: republicans are going to defeat this legislation once it is debated. All this news of a major breakthrough is just posturing because the govt is in a mess with Mr. Bush and his hard balls.:eek:

You can all get excited about the possibility of an immigration deal, but until a bill is voted in the both chambers and goes before the conference committe, no one should be excited about any deal. :D Does anybody remember the push to reform the immigration in 2005? What the hell happened to the bill? Some douche bag defeated it...:p

My deep throat told me this afternoon: "this agreement is not going to be approved by any chamber of the house, especially the hardliners in the republican party who view this as liberal amnesty which reward bad behavior by illegals. :eek: So...with elections coming next year, no one wants to voted out because they allowed illegals to become legals... ;)

[machelon]

So does anybody know a DATE when these immigration changes will take effect? I just sent in a petition for a family member (sister) for GC. Will it be included in the group of petitions that will be processed within 8 years?

[TheRealCanadian]

So does anybody know a DATE when these immigration changes will take effect?

Since nothing has even been introduced, never mind passed, no one can give you a date.

We're seeing a ton of unnecessary hysteria due to a lot of people jumping the gun and not being prudent or reasonable.

[dr_lha]

My deep throat told me this afternoon: "this agreement is not going to be approved by any chamber of the house, especially the hardliners in the republican party who view this as liberal amnesty which reward bad behavior by illegals. :eek: So...with elections coming next year, no one wants to voted out because they allowed illegals to become legals... ;)

I love how the amnesty is being blamed on "liberals" when the biggest proponent of it is one George W. Bush and many of his cronies. Hell, a certain Miami Republican Senator (Mel Martinez) was pushing for a bill in which any illegal alien who had been in the USA for 5 years would automatically be made citizens. Not everything bad in America is the fault of "liberals" you know.

[machelon]

Since nothing has even been introduced, never mind passed, no one can give you a date.

We're seeing a ton of unnecessary hysteria due to a lot of people jumping the gun and not being prudent or reasonable.


Relax. This is a public forum, not CNN..no one will quote you on what you say or write.
I was just wondering if anybody knows of tentative cut-off dates for family applications. Any rumors, any ballpark idea???
I am worried because it will mean ALL or Nothing for some people.

[TheRealCanadian]

Relax. This is a public forum, not CNN..no one will quote you on what you say or write.

No, instead people will pass on all sorts of unfounded rumors for months.

I am worried because it will mean ALL or Nothing for some people.

It could. But then again with the point system, it might be less of an impact than people assume. While the FB categories may be eliminated on paper, if family ties count for a significant number of points then it might not be an all or nothing situation. That's why commenting before the specifics of the bill are introduced is a waste of time.

Give it five days; I am confident a lot more will be clearer once a bill is before the Senate.

[hiachiever]

I kinda like your idea! That's just give me a thought. What if, this issue just never resolved while the government is closing as much as loopholes as possible like making the businesses never hiring illegals anymore. Won't this make U.S. less attractive to the illegals and restore the employment issues? and maybe they'll voluntarary go back to their home country :D



Guys,


Stop this bickering and mud slinging on this proposed bill, the operational word there "proposed". :rolleyes: My contribution is this: republicans are going to defeat this legislation once it is debated. All this news of a major breakthrough is just posturing because the govt is in a mess with Mr. Bush and his hard balls.:eek:

You can all get excited about the possibility of an immigration deal, but until a bill is voted in the both chambers and goes before the conference committe, no one should be excited about any deal. :D Does anybody remember the push to reform the immigration in 2005? What the hell happened to the bill? Some douche bag defeated it...:p

My deep throat told me this afternoon: "this agreement is not going to be approved by any chamber of the house, especially the hardliners in the republican party who view this as liberal amnesty which reward bad behavior by illegals. :eek: So...with elections coming next year, no one wants to voted out because they allowed illegals to become legals... ;)

[envision]

Ending Chain Migration
In Place Of The Current System Where Nearly Two-Thirds Of Green Cards Are Awarded To Relatives Of
U.S. Citizens, Our Immigration System Will Be Reformed To Better Balance The Importance Of Family
Connections With The Economic Needs Of Our Country.
Visas for parents of U.S. citizens are capped, while green cards for the siblings and adult children of U.S.
citizens and green card holders are eliminated.
A new Parents Visitor visa is created to ensure that parents are allowed to visit their children in the United
States regularly and for extended periods of time.
The Diversity Lottery Program, which grants 50,000 green cards per year through random chance, is
ended.
These rebalanced green cards are used to clear the Family Backlog in eight years and then applied to the
new Merit System for future immigration once the backlog is cleared.


http://www.aila.org/content/default.aspx?docid=22371

[leah111]

I read this, does that mean that my future husband can't sponsor me???

"Bush said the deal would end "chain migration" by limiting the relatives who can automatically receive green cards to spouses and minor children."

[machelon]

I kinda like your idea! That's just give me a thought. What if, this issue just never resolved while the government is closing as much as loopholes as possible like making the businesses never hiring illegals anymore. Won't this make U.S. less attractive to the illegals and restore the employment issues? and maybe they'll voluntarary go back to their home country :D

as long as you buy products or receive services from illegal workers, (which YOU do eveyday) and jobs are available, the flow of illegal immigrants will NEVER stop.

[machelon]

That is not the reality in the world right now. Where would you draw the line? My heart aches sometimes for spouses of GC holders, parents of GC holders, certain illegal aliens separated from children etc. But to maintain a workable system, lines have to be drawn.

Right....your heart aches??? Comon on. Be honest. Not including the parents of citizens is UNFAIR. The immigration reform needs to find a good balance between the preferences given to family members and skills. I agree that adult children and sibblings be excluded. I agree that skills ned to count more. So its perfectly good to draw the line to immediate family memebers (children,spouses and parents). Seems simply and clear.


This country does need to move to a more skills-based system, attracting immigrants who can truly contribute to the country. As I have said, immigration policies are to be designed to benefit the nation as a whole, while observing individual rights and liberty. However, parents have no inherent right to follow their children. These are things that need to be considered before immigrating to another country.

you have to compromise a little bit here. There are only 2 parents per citizen, and with less family members coming in the future the number of elegible parents will reduce even more. Lets just leave it the way it is.
Stop trying to sound like the savior of this country. man...you still have this Dr Phil tendency.... :)
I beleive is FAIR and reasonable to keep parents as immidiate family who can immigrate here. I just hope that part changes in the bill.

[indiano]

Hello Guys, Don,t waste time here in debating or arguing for no solution.Just keep writing your Senators. Write your full view that how the family member would suffer after waiting long long years.Dr Jha was right don,t blow the whistle in internet just write your senators and tell your all friends to write them .Eventhough they are from diffrent zip code or city.

[Umbrella]

Indiano, I would gladly write to each and every Senator but I am not sure how to do that since I have never written to a Senator before. What would anyone interested like to say to a Senator about the family immigration chain elimination?

[cscgc]

Parents of US citizens are currently considered immediate relatives, so it wouldn't affect them if F1-4 were abolished anyway, only if they decided to re-evaluate what an "immediate relative" is.



dr, I just wanted to point out to you that the Proposed Draft (http://www.immigration-law.com/Temporary%20II.html) does redefine immediate relative to eliminate parents from immediate relative category. Refer tp SEC. 503. REDUCING CHAIN MIGRATION .... the proposed immediate relative does not inlcude parent and also the family preference category(which has numerical limitation) abolishes the current F1-4(except 2A I think) and states this:
"Parents of a citizen of the United States if the citizen is at least 21 years of age. Qualified immigrants who are the parents of a citizen of the United States where the citizen is at least 21 years of age shall be allocated visas in a number not to exceed 40,000"

And the white house Press Release (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070517-7.html) confirms exactly this.

Any idea what the backlog will be for parent's then? I guess it will be 8 years since 40,000 is a very small number.

I understand that as usual not everybody has vested interest in the parents category, but hey, what is the absurd argument about strain on the taxes? does this run close to the billions spent on a stupid war that the country is burdened with due to some idiots judgement? For most of us who are planning to sponsor, we can very well afford for our parents to stay with us.

If there is an objection about the state paying for health-care, go ahead and include whatever text in the legislation, so that the state does not pay a penny to our ageing parents(even though people who jumped fences and laws can get free health-care, pls dont bother to fix that). But what is the point in preventing them from coming here and retiring with their loved ones under their kid's roof? Wouldn't they also add to the consumer spending which is the back-bone of this economy? Anway, I am praying and hoping this Draft does not become part of the final bill.

[Umbrella]

cscgs, I have been told the waiting line will approximately be 10-15 years, not 8. LPR spouses tend to wait for 6-7 years to get their F2A visa while their cap is twice as much. LPR spouses and minor children 2nd A Preference 87,900 visas/yr

[Umbrella]

May 19. 2007 Draft of Compromise Bill [For Discussion Only] (http://www.immigration-law.com/Temporary%20II.html)

[thera33]

cscgs, I have been told the waiting line will approximately be 10-15 years, not 8. LPR spouses tend to wait for 6-7 years to get their F2A visa while their cap is twice as much.


8 years is the stated period.....Look at the amont of visa numbers that extended family members will receive. They will receive over 3 times the amount they currently receive. The backlog for F1, which has the least people waiting in line could br cleared in 2 years...then those numbers will be assigned to the points system. If you take a closer look F2A numbers will be decreased.

[cscgc]

This looks quite good to me:

No "elimination" of family based immigration, just adjusting the quota. Might mean a longer wait but will also be an incentive for immigrants to become US citizens.
.

Even though there is no elimination of some nuclear family based category(i.e, Parents), the annual numerical limits 40000 would make it impossible to get a visa number in 8 or 10 years, for some of the aged parents who are waiting for a interview at CP or cannot get into AOS from their visitor visa, it may very well mean not in their life-time.:(

[pianoplayer]

Right....your heart aches??? Comon on. Be honest. Not including the parents of citizens is UNFAIR. The immigration reform needs to find a good balance between the preferences given to family members and skills. I agree that adult children and sibblings be excluded. I agree that skills ned to count more. So its perfectly good to draw the line to immediate family memebers (children,spouses and parents). Seems simply and clear.



you have to compromise a little bit here. There are only 2 parents per citizen, and with less family members coming in the future the number of elegible parents will reduce even more. Lets just leave it the way it is.
Stop trying to sound like the savior of this country. man...you still have this Dr Phil tendency.... :)
I beleive is FAIR and reasonable to keep parents as immidiate family who can immigrate here. I just hope that part changes in the bill.

Hi:

If all you can come up with is whining about how it is unfair and making personal attacks about me pretending to be some savior and Dr Phil..... I guess my argument must have been a good one. At least it hit some nerve.

[FMR75]

Run for Congress, PianoPlayer!! I'll vote for you!!!!

[FMR75]

Run for Congress, PianoPlayer!! I'll vote for you!!!!!

[pianoplayer]

Even though there is no elimination of some nuclear family based category(i.e, Parents), the annual numerical limits 40000 would make it impossible to get a visa number in 8 or 10 years, for some of the aged parents who are waiting for a interview at CP or cannot get into AOS from their visitor visa, it may very well mean not in their life-time.:(

Hi:

You clearly look at it from a very personal perspective - wishing to have your parents here. I sympathise. However, do you realize how many others suffer due to separation too? What about illegal alien parents who are separated from their US citizen children? What about a brother or sister left alone in a foreign country unable to immigrate to the US for at least 10 years? Are they any less worthy?

Unfortunately, lines have to be drawn. The visas for parents are currently horribly abused - a significant percentage of parents obtain the visa, enter, receive the GC and then return to live overseas, returning for 3 months or so every year to attempt retaining residence. Many know they can do this, because if they were to lose PR - it would be easy to get it again. The USC child just files again and they are immediately eligible. I would suggest that a waiting period would deter situations like this, and parents who actually want to live in the US and contribute will be able to make use of it. It will prevent abuse of parental visas, that could have been better used to bring immigrants with valuable skills to this country.

[thera33]

Hi:

If all you can come up with is whining about how it is unfair and making personal attacks about me pretending to be some savior and Dr Phil..... I guess my argument must have been a good one. At least it hit some nerve.

I can't understand why you guys who claim to be intelligent always chase after every argument that you felt is against you. This immigration thing has everyone itchy ready to explode.

We are all immigrants here, if America believes in letting family extended or extra extended thats up to them....they beleive in family reunification......it seems alot of us on this forum does not, all we care is for us to be in the system then we shut the door. If they want skill they can still get it, so if they dont want to seperate families thats their call.

[FMR75]

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1179511978687.shtm

*** "A new Parents Visitor visa is created to ensure that parents are allowed to visit their children in the United States regularly and for extended periods of time."

I see that they might implement a new VISA for parents. Are there any details about this? What is this????

[sbkim]

If they implement 40,000 parental visa cap, can you still send in your application and be able to stay in US until they process his/her application?

I am curious how many parental visa (GC) are processed each year...

[akatu]

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1179511978687.shtm

*** "A new Parents Visitor visa is created to ensure that parents are allowed to visit their children in the United States regularly and for extended periods of time."

I see that they might implement a new VISA for parents. Are there any details about this? What is this????

The major problem with visitors visas that US consilate just do not give them.

A lot of immigrants even would not bother to obtain citizenship if were asured that their relatives could treval free in and out of US. Difficulty to obtain visitors visa THAT is the main problem with this country not immigration per se.
Nobody will trust that they let your parents come on visitors visa, then why they don't do it now?. I know tons of cases when parents were denied either for minor violations (like overstay even if visa extension was filed timely and has been approved subsiquently, and although nobody doubt that 70 years old less likley work illegaly) or with no reason but merely as retaliation for their children's "bad behavior" (e.g. having changed visitors visa F/J/H - Green Card inside the US)

[FMR75]

Thank you for your insight, Akatu. Point well taken.

[perplexing]

Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Go to another country that will pay for your parents using the citizens tax monies. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible.

Apart from being heedless and unconscious, your comments lack basic human intellect. No, don’t burden your pea sized brain to ask, WHAT IS HE talking about? I am taking the liberty to clarify and eradicate any doubts.

1. Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Well fact of the matter is humans from this planet can not base their decisions on an event which hasn't taken place. Meaning for some one to have CITIZENSHIP points to a minor chronological issue; that is, they probably came here at least a decade ago (when this was not a problem). The same being the case when ANGLOSAXON men stepped foot on this soil.
2. I am not CRYING but merely exercising my right to voice my opinion in a democratic GOVT which I helped to ELLECT and paid for.
3. When sponsoring a kin you have to pay substantial amount of money to process the necessary paper work (paid by the sponsoring party). I fail to see what formula is being used by your insignificant being to calculate the cost being heavier on a CITIZEN. O premonition I am the CITIZEN and I am paying for the costs.
4. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible. I guess with this logic in mind, Nancy Pelosi and Bush is complaining. May be they need to listen to your advice on how to run the government.
5. A little ECO 101 for your FYI. Immigrants with their fines, social security, taxes, Medicaid and Medicare fuel the lagging and already bottomed out Social Security system. If you want to take other countries into consideration; visitors and immigrants are not liable for these sums since they are not eligible to receive them in the first place. Its called VAT, for a second put your coke and fries down and look it up. It might make you sound less of a Neanderthal.



Just a suggestion don’t attempt to reciprocate no one is interested!

[dr_lha]

Apart from being heedless and unconscious, your comments lack basic human intellect. No, don’t burden your pea sized brain to ask, WHAT IS HE talking about?
This kind of insulting comment is really quite unnecessary. You disagree, OK! Make your point without resorting to cheap shots which reduce the impact of your argument.

[TheRealCanadian]

A little ECO 101 for your FYI. Immigrants with their fines, social security, taxes, Medicaid and Medicare fuel the lagging and already bottomed out Social Security system. If you want to take other countries into consideration; visitors and immigrants are not liable for these sums since they are not eligible to receive them in the first place.

You should consider taking ECO101 again. :) Immigrants are certainly eligible for Social Security and Medicare, and some former non-immigrants can also collect from SS. Additionally, neither program is financed from general taxation or fines.

[GotPR?]

The major problem with visitors visas that US consilate just do not give them.

A lot of immigrants even would not bother to obtain citizenship if were asured that their relatives could treval free in and out of US. Difficulty to obtain visitors visa THAT is the main problem with this country not immigration per se.
Nobody will trust that they let your parents come on visitors visa, then why they don't do it now?. I know tons of cases when parents were denied either for minor violations (like overstay even if visa extension was filed timely and has been approved subsiquently, and although nobody doubt that 70 years old less likley work illegaly) or with no reason but merely as retaliation for their children's "bad behavior" (e.g. having changed visitors visa F/J/H - Green Card inside the US)

Why consulate is so cautious to issue the visa to IR of USC is because they can adjust the status once they are in the US. How many times have you seen the threads regarding AOS while parents are on B status or overstaying on this board ? Those participating in this board is tiny portion of whole immigrants , yet you can see so many such threads. you can guess how many B or overstaying parents trying to go AOS. It's not negligible figure, therefore consulate becomes careful for visa issurance. Before blaming consulate, blame your fellow immigrants who made your life difficult.

If parents are not allowed to adjust status through their children, the concern that consualte/CIS has is less and they can issue the visa, especially if it was designed to that purpose.

[perplexing]

You should consider taking ECO101 again. :) Immigrants are certainly eligible for Social Security and Medicare, and some former non-immigrants can also collect from SS. Additionally, neither program is financed from general taxation or fines.

O M G!!!! Messiah to the rescue. I am sorry I should have spelled everything out in detail.

It can easily be determined who is eligible for SS by going to www.socialsecurity.gov

What I was alluding to is the fact that non-immigrants have a waiting period till their status is adjusted to immigrants, where they can not apply for these benefits. So from the time you enter the country, to the time you are eligible to receive SS; there is a lag. Also, I am not too versed on “refugee” status, but all (o sorry I should say ‘majority’, since someone will come to the rescue again) the skilled worker and family based sponsorships function in this manner.

Check out this link: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/capitalcommerce/070518/immigration_and_social_securit.htm

[TheRealCanadian]

What I was alluding to is the fact that non-immigrants have a waiting period till their status is adjusted to immigrants, where they can not apply for these benefits.

But that's not true, either. Take a hypothetical Canadian citizen who comes to the US on a TN for five years, then switches to an H-1B for another six. He then moves back to Canada, never having become a permanent resident or anything other than a non-immigrant temporary worker. He can claim SS based on over 40 quarters of work, without any totalization at all.

[pianoplayer]

I can't understand why you guys who claim to be intelligent always chase after every argument that you felt is against you. This immigration thing has everyone itchy ready to explode.

We are all immigrants here, if America believes in letting family extended or extra extended thats up to them....they beleive in family reunification......it seems alot of us on this forum does not, all we care is for us to be in the system then we shut the door. If they want skill they can still get it, so if they dont want to seperate families thats their call.

Hi:

Thank you for the compliment, but I never claimed to be intelligent.

BTW, your argument is sort of reverse - I am all for America deciding what America wants. In fact, I was not the one arguing against this bill, which seems to restrict family immigration to some degree. If this version is indeed what will be voted on (and we don't even know that), then let the elected representatives decide. If they don't like it, they can vote it down. But how do you know what America wants?

If you disagree with the current bill, contact your local representative and voice your concerns. That is your right. But do not make presumptions about what America wants. That is yet to be decided.

[pianoplayer]

O M G!!!! Messiah to the rescue. I am sorry I should have spelled everything out in detail.

It can easily be determined who is eligible for SS by going to www.socialsecurity.gov

What I was alluding to is the fact that non-immigrants have a waiting period till their status is adjusted to immigrants, where they can not apply for these benefits. So from the time you enter the country, to the time you are eligible to receive SS; there is a lag. Also, I am not too versed on “refugee” status, but all (o sorry I should say ‘majority’, since someone will come to the rescue again) the skilled worker and family based sponsorships function in this manner.

Check out this link: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/capitalcommerce/070518/immigration_and_social_securit.htm

Yes of course you should be accurate with the information you provide. I think you just like being controversial and spouting all sorts of insults. Such non-intellectual, shallow, emotional rhetoric does very little to persuade and is quite frankly boring.

[akatu]

Why consulate is so cautious to issue the visa to IR of USC is because they can adjust the status once they are in the US. How many times have you seen the threads regarding AOS while parents are on B status or overstaying on this board ? Those participating in this board is tiny portion of whole immigrants , yet you can see so many such threads. you can guess how many B or overstaying parents trying to go AOS. It's not negligible figure, therefore consulate becomes careful for visa issurance. Before blaming consulate, blame your fellow immigrants who made your life difficult.

If parents are not allowed to adjust status through their children, the concern that consualte/CIS has is less and they can issue the visa, especially if it was designed to that purpose.

What are you talking about? I am PR now and was on J1 before there is no way that my parents or children can do AOS and they know it perfectly well,
I came to this country legaly and never had intent to be illegal, neighther my relatives should they come to visit.

If they wanted they could implement electronic tracing system for long ago, like reporting on-line monthly or Qx 3 months, even check in sectetary of state office , like in Europian countries or else. That would solve the problem.

but easy way just not to let people in.
This is by the way a violation of basic human rights - freedom to travel

[envision]

What are you talking about? I am PR now and was on J1 before there is no way that my parents or children can do AOS and they know it perfectly well,
I came to this country legaly and never had intent to be illegal, neighther my relatives should they come to visit.

If they wanted they could implement electronic tracing system for long ago, like reporting on-line monthly or Qx 3 months, even check in sectetary of state office , like in Europian countries or else. That would solve the problem.

but easy way just not to let people in.
This is by the way a violation of basic human rights - freedom to travel

You cannot be serious:eek: Who are you to dictate how the people should run their country? Can anyone who wishes to move to your homeland do so as freely as in the U.S.? :rolleyes:

[akatu]

First of all it is not their country. It is the USA ,country that was created by immigrants and for immigrant and that is thriving in our labour.
second of all , if they dare to teach how to run other countries, what's wrong with teaching them.
But seriously, it's not about "to dictate" to people. In fact we are these people and it is a mater of our lives. To prevent aging parents to live with their children is crual and unusual panishment.

[machelon]

Yes of course you should be accurate with the information you provide. I think you just like being controversial and spouting all sorts of insults. Such non-intellectual, shallow, emotional rhetoric does very little to persuade and is quite frankly boring.

I am quite bored by you actually.
What some of us are here saying and is that that part of the bill is UNFAIR. YOU know it. That is why you keep defending it. In some way you are pleased with the balance on your side. Let us protest something YOU KNOW is unbalanced and unfair. Congratulations if the bill passes like this, you gain 1 point, but we will gain many more.
One of the biggest joys of becoming a citizen is to finally set roots in this beautiful country and what could be better than having your children, spouse and parents living near you. If that DOES NOT DEFINE LIFE IN AMERICA, I DON'T KNOW WHAT DOES. The american dream is not $100k/year, is your immediate family home for dinner at thanksgiving.
So stop counting change...quoting how many parents go home, and live 3 months here...blah, blah, blah. If it cost soemthing to have parents here. SO BE IT.
I pay for my parents rent each month, I wish I had that money to buy myself other thing. but NO family is more important. Let's ALL assume that responsability and have OUR parents here.
NOW you really hit a NERVE. :)

[TheRealCanadian]

This is by the way a violation of basic human rights - freedom to travel

You'll need to show me where the "basic human right" exists. There is a right to emigrate, but there is no reciprocal right to immigrate.

[machismo]

This bill is largely being introduced to sort out "illegal immigration", however the changes proposed clearly show more legal immigrants will be effected also. I am not quite sold on this is what "America" wants, I think only states connected to Mexico were wanting to sort out the rush of illegal immigration. If they want to stop family based migration, I think its more to do with aging legal migrants becoming burden on the benifits more than anything else. I don't expect my Social Security money to be there 30 years from now anyways, because I have faith in goverment to mess it up compeltely enough where we will end up paying for it regardless. But to see that $5000 can buy illegal border crossed people as late as Jan 1, 2007 get their legal status, even after they violated and crossed the "new increased secured" border, just makes me little bit disgruntled. Even single mom's working minimum wage jobs pay more than $5000 in taxes. But the MAIN issue, that I don't atleast see addressed is to stop illegal immigration which is the real issue to begin with, or how will there be a way to make the future illegals go back, once the current lot is addressed with.

[pianoplayer]

What are you talking about? I am PR now and was on J1 before there is no way that my parents or children can do AOS and they know it perfectly well,
I came to this country legaly and never had intent to be illegal, neighther my relatives should they come to visit.

If they wanted they could implement electronic tracing system for long ago, like reporting on-line monthly or Qx 3 months, even check in sectetary of state office , like in Europian countries or else. That would solve the problem.

but easy way just not to let people in.
This is by the way a violation of basic human rights - freedom to travel

Unfortunately there is no such thing - there is no basic fundamental human right to travel. RoyalCanadian gave you a very good explanation. There is no inherent RIGHT to immigrate.

What this argument is essentially about, is to what degree America should extend the privilege of immigrating.

[pianoplayer]

I am quite bored by you actually.
What some of us are here saying and is that that part of the bill is UNFAIR. YOU know it. That is why you keep defending it. In some way you are pleased with the balance on your side. Let us protest something YOU KNOW is unbalanced and unfair. Congratulations if the bill passes like this, you gain 1 point, but we will gain many more.
One of the biggest joys of becoming a citizen is to finally set roots in this beautiful country and what could be better than having your children, spouse and parents living near you. If that DOES NOT DEFINE LIFE IN AMERICA, I DON'T KNOW WHAT DOES. The american dream is not $100k/year, is your immediate family home for dinner at thanksgiving.
So stop counting change...quoting how many parents go home, and live 3 months here...blah, blah, blah. If it cost soemthing to have parents here. SO BE IT.
I pay for my parents rent each month, I wish I had that money to buy myself other thing. but NO family is more important. Let's ALL assume that responsability and have OUR parents here.
NOW you really hit a NERVE. :)

Hi:

Once again, IMHO, nothing but emotional rhetoric that doesn't make any real rational appeal. But you know, your feelings are valid. Again, I urge you to contact your local representative and voice your concerns. While you may not have persuaded me, you can always try to persuade him/her and maybe it will make a difference in the debate!

What are you whining at me for? Get on the phone.

[FMR75]

1. Why cry to the U.S. government that your parents won't be allowed to come here?? Simply don't come in the first place if you have a problem with the NEW immigration reform. Well fact of the matter is humans from this planet can not base their decisions on an event which hasn't taken place. Meaning for some one to have CITIZENSHIP points to a minor chronological issue; that is, they probably came here at least a decade ago (when this was not a problem). The same being the case when ANGLOSAXON men stepped foot on this soil.
2. I am not CRYING but merely exercising my right to voice my opinion in a democratic GOVT which I helped to ELLECT and paid for.
3. When sponsoring a kin you have to pay substantial amount of money to process the necessary paper work (paid by the sponsoring party). I fail to see what formula is being used by your insignificant being to calculate the cost being heavier on a CITIZEN. O premonition I am the CITIZEN and I am paying for the costs.
4. STOP COMPLAINING!! All the immigration BS has really becoming a burden on everyone here. We should be more responsible. I guess with this logic in mind, Nancy Pelosi and Bush is complaining. May be they need to listen to your advice on how to run the government.
5. A little ECO 101 for your FYI. Immigrants with their fines, social security, taxes, Medicaid and Medicare fuel the lagging and already bottomed out Social Security system. If you want to take other countries into consideration; visitors and immigrants are not liable for these sums since they are not eligible to receive them in the first place. Its called VAT, for a second put your coke and fries down and look it up. It might make you sound less of a Neanderthal.


1. What do Anglosaxon men have to do with current immigration laws???:confused:
2. You spelled E L L E C T wrong, it is E L E C T.:)
3. Good for you!! Do all citizens pay the cost?? Do they want to???:eek:
4. Maybe they should. :p
5. I don't drink coke or eat fries. :D