Can use my passport ?

[mmike]

Hi, I filed my I-485 alreday. Can I still use my passport or renew it?

Thanks for any comments!

[alanpero]

mmike,
this a delicate issue. Using your passport or renewing it could be interpreted as if you no longer have the well founded fear of persecution. As a matter of fact, I remember I have read some regulations stating on that. This is why the Refugee Travel Document, a document issued in lieu of your passport, is what you have to get, before traveling abroad. Also, the Advance Parole should work provided you urgently need to travel.
In the I-131 form (RTD application), they ask if you have got or renewed your national passport, and if your answer is yes, you have to provide an explanation. But, on the other hand, this is somehow a kind of contradictory or questionable requirement, because once INS approve your I-485 they stamp your national passport.
So, to be in the safe side better not to use or renew your national passport while you are holding an asylee status.
Also, to use your passport requires for you to have a valid visa to be re-admitted in the US. What kind of visa is that going to be? student, visitor, H1, etc.
I am not a lawyer; therefore, take my comment as one coming from an individual that has learned about this stuff from own experience, other\'s experience and from what I have read and searched for a little while.

[JackArcherNew]

That\'s exactly how I understand it too Alanpero. But why does the INS stamp in asylee\'s old passport when his/her I-485 is approved. Strange huh?

[alanpero]

I remember now where I read about the passport renewal issue: INS Operating Instruction OI 209.3 (ii)(B):
"...Factors which taken together with improved country conditions, may indicate that the applicant no longer continues to be a refugee, include, but are not limited to:
(A)...
(B) application for and/or receipt of a national passport, passport renewal, or entry permit issued by the country of alleged persecution, or ...."
And, as I said before and Jack also pointed out, this is weird because this statement is not consistent with the INS procedure of stamping the passport after I-485 approval.
Also, this paragraph is arguable because it doesn\'t apply for instance to cases of localized persecution or to cases of non political persecution and to many other asylum cases.
Anyway, it seems that this procedure shouldn\'t apply for all asylum cases or at least is something questionable. But better stay away of all this and stick with the RTD.

[JackArcherNew]

What if the asylee no longer has his/her passport? Will the INS stamp I-485 approval in another document such as the RTD?
 Most of us are not able to renew our passports because the dogs in our homecountries know who we are and what we have done.

[alanpero]

Well, I don\'t know about that. However, it makes sense INS will stamp in the RTD. One more thing, I believe, they should stamp your passport even if it is expired. I mean you do not need to renew your pasport to be stamped, at least that is what I believe.
Also, I remember that sometime ago one asylee, that had already got his I-485 approved, posted a message in this portal saying that he got his I-94 stamped because he had no national passport. Unfortunately, I can\'t find that message.
Anyway, after you actually receive your GC, that stamping in the passport is not so important at least for traveling purposes. Though, another reason why they stamp the passport is to register the date of your resident visa approval, to start accruing time for citizenship, which on the other hand should be also registered in the computing system. So, finally what is the stamping for? Don\'t know. Well, we will learn more about this after you go through this final step of this process.

[alanpero]

Jack, I found the reference I was talking about. Note he says he got his I-94 stamped because didn\'t have valid passport. So, more question marks on this. Do they require a valid passport for stamping?
Unfortunately, Bruce has not responded any of my messages.

GC based on asylum and national passport
bruce hirst - 12:30am Feb 1, 2001 EST

Hello,

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

My adjustment of status was just approved a couple of weeks ago and I received an I-94 with the stamp on it since I didn\'t have a valid passport. I may need to travel and I was wondering if it is OK to renew my national passport. Is it going to be against any laws or guidelines by the USDOJ to get a passport from the country of citizenship after you have been granted asylum and gotten GC based on that? I currently have an application for a travel document but it will take 120-150 days before I get it (based on the message). I am NOT going to travel to my national country rather need to do work related travel to Europe and South America.

Thanks much for your help

Bruce

[RAJARANI]

Hi Alanpero:

Is there anyway if Bruce could tell it his GC indicates by any means that he is an asylee. I mean if it is wrtten on his GC that he is an Asylee? We had this questions couple of months ago on this forum but without any firm answer. I think when Bruce has received his GC, he might be able to tell more facts.

[Ross]

I renewed my Passpot (as a Asylee)

Hi---Everyone I renewed my Passport last month also I applied I-485 as a asylee ( My Political Asylem has been granted). Also I recive my Travel document cus i like to visit some country.----
So my question is in future on my Green card interview the INS will make any problem cus i renewed my national passport.
One thing I got my national passport from here(USA) cus i lost my old passport and on my interview with Immigration Judge they seen my new passport and they know that i got this passport from here(USA)----
Please give me advice for GC interview in future

[alanpero]

Hi Rajarani, unfortunately Bruce has not answered any of my replies. I have sent him several messages but no luck. As for the GC, I was told by some asylees that it is indicated in the GC, the asylum status, though I did not actually see their GC\'s. It seems that only when Jack gets his GC we will actually know how everything works.

[alanpero]

Ross, as said in previous message, to renew the passport, is something that preferably should be avoided, to avoid further inquiries from INS, but it is not the "end of the world" either. I only have two points of concern about the renewal:
First, the one explained in message 1 regarding the I-131 form where they ask if you have renewed your passport
Second,the INS operating instruction OI 209.3 referred in message 1.1.1, which you can get using this link http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/cgi-bin/folioisa.dll/lawbooks.nfo/query=[jump!3A!27oi209!27]/doc/{@47873}?
The asylee status is granted when there is a well founded fear of persecution because of allien\'s race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion, among many other factors. To get or renew passport may affect some of them, but it shouldn\'t be a general rule that can be applied to all of them as an indication that the fear of persecution no longer exists.
At least is my personal opinion, that INS OI is arguable. I am not a lawyer, so just give to my opinion only the credit it deserves. I would suggest to you to check with a lawyer specialized in immigration matters (and also get a second opinion)about this two concerns or any other you might have, and please feedback us with what you find. Thanks and good luck.

[JackArcherNew]

Everytime I see someone asking this question (whether an asylee should renew his/her passport while I-485 is pending) I usually respond like this:

 Should you drive your car without liability insuance?
A: Some people do it without getting caught. And some run into horrible accidents and get into serious trouble.

 Just giving an analogy here. Not making any comments or suggestions to the issue in question.

[Ross]

All the Asylee need Passpot------

I think all the Asylee when they get Green-card but you still need passport when ever you go out USA and back in here.If INS don\'t approve Green-Card cus i renewd my national passport so INS should give some kind of passport after the Green card.I mean if they have problem with passport they should give us American passport(I wish) or someting that we can use substute as a national passport untile we get the USA passport.
On my political case the Judge and govorment attorney ask me about my new passport(which one i get from my embassy here) and i told them I lost my old one thats why i got new one. And after all of this Judge granted my Asylam.----
So my question is how come the Green card interview INS officer denied the case once that Granted by Immigration Judge cus only of passport issue.
I think all the people who get their Green card as a Asylee everyone using their national passport.
Jack you went that interview did immi-offecer ask you about your passport?
Was your passport Valid that time?
Please give us more information about that

[Gilbert]

Hello everyone.

I have just found out about this board.

In response to the question of whether our green cards will show our asylum status, here is the fact.

The green cards will NOT have an English phrase saying that the holders have been previously granted asylum. BUT EVERY green card, asylum-based or not, HAS a code stating the basis under which permanent residence was granted. For us asylees, the code will be AS6, AS7 or AS8, depending on if we are the principal asylees, spouse or kids.

So, a person well-versed in immigration law and procedure will know how we get our green card, but not perhaps a lay person

[Gilbert]

boss,

When reviewing your application for green card, the immigration officer must determine that you are still a refugee. If you renewed your passport, she can make a case that you no longer meet the refugee definition and thus not eligible for adjustment. Moreover, the law permits REVOCATION OF ASYLEES STATUS when you no longer fear persecution. The officer can then send your file to the asylum office for revocation proceedings or if you case was approved by a judge, she will ask the INS trial attorney to file a reopen motion with the judge to cancel the asylum grant.

Believe me, it happen from time to time. I have been working in an immigration law office, I know what I am talking about.

Some people renewed their passports and got away with it, perhaps because the officer is human and she just does not want to make people\'s life more difficult than it already is.

But why take the chance? Why can you just use the darn RED?

[Ross]

Hi Gilbart

Thanks for your valuable information and help.Now you know i am in big trouble (about renuwal passprot).As you work with Law farm please give me some advice what i should and what i shouldn\'t do on Green card interview.Here is my E-mail address also if you like to e-mail me-- ross_rehan@hotmail.com
I will be really greatful to you.---and you know how hard to get the asylem approved--I have to wait 9 years for that.
And what do you mean by RED is that REFFUGE TRAVEL DOCUMENT?
Thank\'s a lot.

[RAJARANI]

Excellent ! Dear Gilbert thank you so much for putting that info on this board about which we have been bothering many and I am one them.

[RAJARANI]

Kudos to you dear Gilbert. You are great! Please keep advicing and updating us. It looks life finally it would be a great discuss between you, Alanpero, Jack and others including myself.
Thanks again..

[Gilbert]

Yes, I meant the Refugee Travel Document, RTD.

Sorry for the error.

I will reply to your concern later today.

[JackArcherNew]

Hey,

 What the heck is a RED? Oh..you must mean the Refugee Travel Document (RTD). Can you think straight and get the terms right? After all it is just a three letter acronym. LOL!

[JackArcherNew]

Mr."Gilbert",

Perhaps you did not do your homework properly before answering the question.

http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/cgi-bin/folioisa.dll/lawbooks.nfo/query=[jump!3A!27oi209!27]/doc/{@47873}

INS Operations Instructions found at the above link clearly states that ...

"Factors which, taken together with improved country conditions, may indicate that the applicant no longer continues to be a refugee, include, but are not limited to:

(A) voluntary return to the country of alleged persecution;

(B) application for and/or receipt of a national passport, passport renewal, or entry permit issued by the country of alleged persecution, or other voluntarily re-acquisition of the nationality of that country;"

  You say you work for an immigration law office? Yet you misspell RTD as RED and can\'t even get the basic facts right. Darn! you must have a very forgiving and understanding lawyer boss.

[Ross]

Hi Gilbert

How you doing.Thanks for your help but I am still waiting for your suggetion about my concern. I hope you don\'t froget that
Thank\'s again

[Ross]

Hi Gilbert

How you doing.Thanks for your help but I am still waiting for your suggetion about my concern. I hope you don\'t froget that
Thank\'s again

[Gilbert]

Mr. Jackarchernew,

Do you have reading difficulty?

The OI you cited also includes the following:

(d) Referral memorandum to asylum office requesting review of refugee status. If the applicant appears not to be, or appears no longer to be a refugee within the meaning of section 101(a)(42)(A) of the Act, or the spouse or child of such a refugee, the case must be referred to the asylum office having jurisdiction over the applicant\'s place of residence for a review of the applicant\'s entitlement to refugee status. The adjustment application must be held in abeyance until a written decision is received from the asylum office either revoking or reaffirming the grant of asylum status. The complete file,accompanied by a memorandum signed by the supervisory examinations officer, must be forwarded to the asylum office. A copy of the applicant\'s sworn statement concerning the
facts upon which the referral is being made should accompany the referral memorandum.

 The referral memorandum must contain the following information:

(1) The date the applicant\'s asylum status was granted (NOTE: Many applicants who were granted asylum prior to November 29, 1990, continue to be eligible for adjustment of status even though they no longer meet the definition of refugee. (See 8 CFR
209.2(a)(2). );
(2) A complete, concise explanation of the reason(s) the applicant appears to no longer qualify as a refugee; and

(3) Other information or reference to sworn statements or other supporting documents which the referring officer believes to be relevant.
*********************
Moreover, in November 99, Mr. Bo Cooper, the General Counsel for the INS (In case you do not know[I guess you do not], the General Counsel interprets the law for the INS. His interpretations are binding unless overturned by federal courts or more senior people in the administration) cites international law stating that "if a refugee applies for and obtains a national passport or its renewal, it will, in the absence of proof to the contrary, be presumed that he [or she] intends to avail himself the protection of the country of his nationality" and has thus lost refugee status.

Go on the Internet and search for the memo. If you are lucky, you will find it. If you have access to very expensive immigration software programs, like I do, then you will find it under the appropriate category.

[alanpero]

Hi Gilbert, thanks for posting about that referral memorandum, which I think is a valuable piece of information. There is still something that is not clear for me and would like to know your comments and inputs. We agree that to renew the national passport is something that should be avoided (though my personal opinion, is that if you have already renewed, it might be a problem but not the “end of the world”).
We know that INS might be checking if an asylee has renewed or got the national passport, but on the other hand, the INS stamp the national passport once the I-485 is approved. Don’t you think this is a kind of contradiction? Do they stamp in expired national passports? Do they stamp in RTD’s? Does the INS stamp in I-94 (as someone posted) if the asylee doesn’t have the national passport? What do you know about this?. Thanks

[Gilbert]

Alanpero,

I basically agree with you on everything you said in the previous post. There is no automatic termination of asylum if the asylee renewed the passport. But some immigration officers could even care less about this issue. As we all know, they have a lot of discretion of adjudicating cases. It is just human nature that some of them are the "go by the book" type. If your Form I-485 gets to one of those people\'s desk, it is a good bet that they will explore the passport issue in detail. I know of several files sent back to the asylum officers who re interviewed the asylees, requested more evidence but ultimately upheld the asylum grant. The files were then returned to the district office for adjustment. With the INS\'s inability to manage the asylee wait list well, people in that situation must wait much longer for adjustment. For people whose files are referred, hiring a good attorney and getting a sympathetic asylum officer are probably enough to starve off disaster.

If we have any choice, we should not do anything that put us at risk of another trip to the asylum office or immigration court.

On the stamping issue. I am not aware of anyone insisting on a passport. But practice varies from office to office. We are again talking about discretion. In the offices that I visit, they stamp the refugee travel document. If that is no available, they create what they call the expanded I-94, the one with your photo, PR stamp and other security features.

At least in my districts, they stamp expired passports for types of adjustment, not just asylee.

[Gilbert]

Ross,

I sent you a private message. After you logged on, please click on "Check Private" on the top of the page and you will see it.
If you want to send a reply, please send it privately.

Thanks.

[alanpero]

Thanks Gilbert, the stamping of RTD\'s, expired passport or I-94\'s were things I presumed INS could do, but was not sure. Good to know that. And yes I also believe we should try to avoid any further inquiries from INS or any referral to the district office. Regards

[Gilbert]

Alan,

Can you tell me how long have been waiting for your GC?

[alanpero]

I filed I-485 in September 88, with receipt notice dated in Oct 98.

[alanpero]

Oops! I menat September 98

[leonse]

Hi. Gilbert,

One of my friends renewed his passport after he filed his 485. After looking all the posts here,he was scared and he told me he might claim that his passport is lost and can\'t get a new one. Does that make sense to INS?

Thank you very much.

[JackArcherNew]

Yeah..."magical" software that only you can see isn\'t it?
So tell me this...does your "magical" software also tells you why INS ask asylees to bring their national passport to the interview and also for stamping? Looks like the "ambulance chasers" have got themselves another possible law suit.

[JackArcherNew]

Hi Alanpero,

 The INS specifically requested to bring my national passport in the finger print appointment letter as well as interview appointment letter. Luckily I kept my national passport but it had expired 2 months after I was granted asylum.

 However, on both events I was not asked to show my national passport (I had it in my brief case though).I am guessing that in lieu of the national passport the INS will stamp your I-485 approval in your I-84 or the RTD.

  I believe that under normal circumstances the INS will not specifically question you whether you renewed your national passport or not. But if you participate as a plaintiff in legal actions against them etc. they will look into every little detail in the plaintiff\'s case and one can never tell what they will find.

[alanpero]

And it seems that everything works at INS official discretion. Apparently they are authorized to ask for it, but not all of them proceed exactly in the same way. And, also the national passport is not the only one document the can stamp.

[Ross]

Hi Gilbert

How you doing. I am still waiting for your suggetion about my concern.
Thank\'s again.